NOW Art Founder Carmen Zella sat down with artist Refik Anadol for a live conversation about public art and LUMINEX 3.0 on Instagram (@nowart_la). RSVP here for future LUMINEX Artist Talks.
Below is a transcript of the video:
Carmen Zella (CZ): Hello, this is Carmen Zella. I’m super excited. We’re having a live Instagram talk with Refik Anadol, who will be one of the artists at Luminex.
Hi, Refik, are you there? It’s so good to see you!
Refik Anadol (RA): Yeah, so good to see you! Can you hear me? Is this Wi-Fi okay?
CZ: Yeah, we can hear you. Hi! How’s everything in Istanbul?
RA: Nice to see you as well from Istanbul. How are you?
CZ: I’m really good. We’re in our final week of getting everything set up for Luminex, so I’m super excited that you’re going to be one of the participating artists again. It’s sad that you won’t be here live, but we will be representing you from the streets of LA.
RA: Thank you very much. I’m always excited about Luminex. It has been one of the best public art installations for a couple of years now, so I’m really happy to be back and share more work.
CZ: I know, this is really exciting. I have so many questions for you. It’s always exciting to see what you’re up to. Right now, you’re in Istanbul, but everyone is buzzing in Los Angeles about the announcement of DATALAND.
RA: Yes, finally!
CZ: I really want to start with that. DATALAND is in downtown Los Angeles, and it will be the world’s first museum of AI. What brought you to this idea? Tell me about your journey to get here.
RA: First of all, I’ve been working with AI for almost eight years, and I’m very grateful that our work has been recognized by incredible institutions like MoMA. I’m also working with Guggenheim Bilbao and many others.
I realized that the medium itself is very challenging. People often don’t understand how complex it is to train a model, collect data, and then work with it artistically. Training AI with data isn’t just one step. After that comes artistic computation, imagination, and finding the right canvas. There are many layers of imagination involved.
At MoMA, it was incredible to display our artwork on such a major scale, but it was also challenging because there wasn’t a space to experiment. The scale, context, and technique are so complex that when you go live, you suddenly have incredible possibilities, but years of experience have taught me that experimentation is crucial.
So first, we needed a place for experiments. Second, we wanted to create a space for interventions, real-time AI experiments, computer graphics, sound experiments, and more.
Another challenge is collecting AI art. AI artworks are living pieces, not just videos or software, and collecting them is different from collecting traditional art. I spoke with the Getty Preservation team in LA and with people at MoMA, and I realized there was no space to think about or discuss how to preserve and collect AI art.
I’ve also been passionate about architecture for 16 years. I wondered what would happen if we designed a space from scratch, embedding the media and technology into the building itself. This all led to the idea of creating an institution.
CZ: So this is what we’ll see with DATALAND?
RA: Yes. It will feature exceptional architecture, technology, and AI research. We’ve spent two years collecting data ethically, taking time rather than rushing. We work closely with Google and Nvidia to ensure sustainability. For example, we use cloud computing powered by renewable energy to avoid harming nature while training AI.
We also spent about six months developing a special backend system. Two days ago, I was at the United Nations in New York, and our research was recognized by the Secretary-General. Our goal is not just to be first but to do AI research responsibly.
CZ: From a very ethically sensitive position.
RA: Yes, very much so.
CZ: Creating that standard is important because being the first will influence how AI is approached. It sounds like the museum will have a strong educational component.
RA: Yes. The word “museum” is intentional. It’s not just for collecting or displaying art. We also teach the practice of AI art. I’ve been teaching at UCLA for 10 years, and I believe teaching in the age of AI has completely changed.
Our large nature model functions like an encyclopedia of nature. It’s important to teach these techniques. We have a learning program, an AI foundation to support those who can’t afford tickets or access to AI, and we hope to make DATALAND accessible globally. When we put it all together, calling it a museum makes sense, as it reflects what museums do for humanity.
CZ: Tell me about the project you’ll showcase in LA, Artificial Realities: California Landscapes. You worked with 153 million publicly available landscapes. Why did you select this piece for Luminex?
RA: As someone who loves nature, especially during the pandemic, I wondered how we could bring nature to people. California landscapes are incredibly beautiful. Our studio collected a dataset of national parks and trained an AI model to create a new series of paintings.
The project first displayed at the Jeffrey Deitch Gallery last year, and we had an amazing response. The AI-generated artworks capture the beauty of California sunsets, sunrises, flora, fauna, and hiking culture.
In the age of AI, human intelligence is often emphasized, but I believe the intelligence of nature is most important. This project aims to give nature a voice, helping people appreciate and respect it.
CZ: So human-machine collaboration allows us to experience nature in a new light.
RA: Yes. It’s about understanding and respecting nature, not replacing it. It’s similar to how Monet used nature as inspiration. The technique is different, but the mindset is the same.
CZ: Selecting this piece for an urban environment, projecting it on a 200-foot by 80-foot wall, allows the public to experience nature amidst the city. Your work brings emotion and a human touch, even though it’s AI-generated. How do you select and manipulate the images?
RA: It starts with data. Data are the memories of AI dreams. We can spend six months to a year collecting and training data. There is no magic button. Art-making begins after research, with artistic computation.
I see data as a pigment that doesn’t dry and can survive any conditions. The “thinking brush” remembers the topic. We also use data sonification, so movement and color generate soundscapes. What we see is what we hear, creating a symbiotic relationship between sound and video. Together, it produces a spiritual and emotional experience.
CZ: Your work resonates emotionally, targeting something innately human. You’ve articulated the energy between humans and AI beautifully. Congratulations.
RA: Thank you. And thank you for hosting us again, and to the entire Luminex and Arup teams. Public art is the best form of art. There’s no beginning or end, no door or ceiling—it’s like life. I hope every artist explores the beauty of street-level public art.
CZ: We can’t do it without artists like you. Thank you.
We’ll document everything, and for anyone who hasn’t seen it yet, on October 5th, Luminex Los Angeles, Refik Anadol will be at Site 7.
RA: Like a positive Blade Runner!
CZ: Exactly. It was so good to see you. Thank you for joining.
RA: Thank you. Thanks to everyone at Luminex and in LA. I hope you enjoy the piece. Goodbye.
CZ: Thank you.
RA: Bye.